'not concerned' and here's how you go about leaving Plusnet !

[#1]

After an ongoing fault of over 3 years, I received an email from [CSA Removed], Plusnet CSC Analyst  telling me the following :

"For example Exchange equipment, the type of Device, if you are wired/wireless, The Operating system of the device, the individual application/program, the router or the time of day you are using the connection can cause Throughput to change. There is nothing wrong with the connection this is just how broadband service works. I have no concerns that your throughput at the property can change from 2mbps to 0.2mbps."

this was followed up with 'If you wish to discuss cancelling the account....' and

"We appreciate your time and patience whilst we have been looking into this issue and thank you for all of your feedback and data. But we are now closing this ticket and investigation."

As [CSA Removed] has " Discussed with [CSA Removed] and hard closure permission given ", I have no means to respond or ask any questions. I thought I was the customer here, buying a service ?

This email was over a page and a half long and gave lots of information that was correct, some that I disagree with and some information that I need answers to - in particular  - I have no concerns that your throughput at the property can change from 2mbps to 0.2mbps. This is the bit I need help with.

Numerous BT engineers have confirmed that the sync speed is good for my line with virtually no errors and it is consistently just over 2Mbps ( it's a 5-6k overhead from exchange only line)

So the other determining factors -  Wireless disabled at Hub. No network connected to hub. Single device, ethernet cable to Hub. Alternative single devices tested ( laptop, netbook, BT engineer's Laptop) connected by ethernet to the hub.  Plus running a program- Net Balancer, which show exactly realtime, the traffic up and down, so what's going on - or NOT, in the background.

When all is good my download speed is between 1.5 and 2Mbps( which is fine for my needs) then it just drops to below 0.5Mbps. No pattern, that can be anytime of the day and be for 30 minutes or a whole evening or days. (Ping is frequently 500+ -is this relevant ? )

As the ticket is shut down and it does not concern [CSA Removed], can any of you folks help me ? I don't understand why if my hub events log is telling me everything is fine,  that when I run a speed test because pages are timing out, it is telling me a whole different story.

TIA and very sorry this is such a long post but don't know who else I can ask as Plusnet have clearly washed their hands of me.

Miriam

Moderator's note by Dick (Strat): CSA name(s) removed (to an area staff can see) as per Forum rules.

[#2]

It sounds to me that BTw have put broadband on your line into the 'too hard' category due to your remote location. 

Have you looked to see if you could do better using one of the mobile networks? They're not prohibitively expensive these days.

[#3]

Hi Miriam.

Having read the full complete response by our faults agent and reviewed the fault report we've raised with our suppliers, I'm really sorry to say, but there's not much we can do, because engineers have deemed your line too long and have definitively advised that no further improvements can be made to your line.

The intermittent poor throughput you're experiencing is likely just due to the length of your line.

Again I'm very sorry to see that it has come to this. Like @Baldrick1 I'd also recommend looking into a mobile data option. Putting your postcode into our coverage checker here shows that you should be able to receive good 4G signal.

Whilst the most data we offer per month is 4GB unless you have a broadband account with us where we'd provide double data, as a gesture of goodwill on this occasion I'll be happy to change your account to phone only which means you should still be eligible for double data which would work out to be 8GB. Let me know if you would like to go ahead.

I hope this helps.

Anoush

[#4]

@med777

As Plusnet have hit a brick wall, it may be time to consider a change of ISP to AAISP.

Why?

Because they love a challenge and have a guarantee that if they cannot get a problem line fixed, then you are free to leave without exit fees. They will take on lines that have issues.

Now they aren't the cheapest ISP but the only one that gets consistently excellent reviews.

From their website at https://aaisp.net.uk/broadband-trial.html

BROADBAND WE'LL FIX YOUR LINE

Like most broadband lines we make use of links from BT and other back-haul carriers to connect your broadband line to our network. Even with non BT back-haul it is usually BT wires in the ground. This is a sensible way of providing a broadband service to the whole country, but does mean we have to deal with BT - particularly if and when things break.

We pride ourselves in having a very capable team of people that deal with faults. We have a close working relationship with BT, and our team are well known within all parts of BT for not tolerating being fobbed off. We are also well known for testing how well wet string works for ADSL!

We have detailed monitoring of lines that allow us to quickly identify faults and take action to resolve them (whether BT, customer equipment, or changes at your end).

In fact, we are so confident we know what we are doing, we'll even take on problems other ISPs leave behind, and that is why we make this offer.

Give us a month and we'll sort your problem broadband line or your money back.

If you are migrating your service to us, even though you know you have a problem with your broadband line, we'll take on the fault. We'll tackle the problem and get it fixed within one month. If we don't then you can migrate away and owe us nothing for your migration to us and your service charges for that month.

We'll even give you visibility of the dialogue we have with BT on the fault tickets we raise (via our control pages) so you can see what is going on.

You have little to lose by calling them and asking about their service.

[#5]

To be frank here, if the line is 5-6km then getting and decent service from any provider using such a long line is going to be a challenge.  AAISP boasts or otherwise.

As note AAISP is not the cheapest and your fall pack plan is what ... no internet service ... exit with no fees.  Plusnet have offered a deal on a mobile package, which would be lost following the above advice.

Has any 24x7 monitoring of the line been undertaken?

Does the synch speed stay constant?

Are there a significant number of disconnections?

What does the SNRM variation look like?

If the SYNC speed is constant and fairly reliable, then the questions need to be directed to why there is a fall off of throughput?  Is the fall off time of day related?  Night time?  Peak time?

Have REIN and SVLAN congestion been ruled out?

...or is it simply a matter that BTOR have declared that their equipment is not fit for service delivery?  ... and are refusing to do anything about it?

If its the latter, then changing ISP is unlikely to alter those constraining physical factors.  Letters to local council and MP might be more effective in kicking BTOR into action.

I am guessing that this is fairly rural - what is being done in your area to get remote rural areas connected over fibre?

[#6]

@Gandalf,

At what level in BTOR is a decision made to give up trying to fix a user's problem?  It seems odd that here BTOR have stopped trying to help, whereas here https://community.plus.net/t5/Broadband/Most-engineers-ever-involved-DSL-speed-issues-progressed-to-... they are being very proactive, going to the trouble to replace cables, put in temporary circuits using better quality (thicker) wires.

Does the level of escalation of that case compared to this case have any bearing?

Is there any route of appeal or escalation against BTOR throwing in the towel?

Is it a matter of this case (unlike the one linked to) has nothing to do with synch or line stability but is down to some other issue, such as external interference or other network capacity?

[#7]

Thanks Baldrick 1,

Have tested most of the mobile networks ( becuase I have had to when I have had no Plusnet usable internet) but don't have a reliable signal here plus I'm not aware of any 'unlimited' mobile broadband packages. Anything less would be a retro step so not pursuing that line unless the packages change.

Miriam

[#8]

Thanks Gandalf for your reply.

Over the period this fault has been open, the work that has been done on cables etc, there is without doubt an improvement.

The most recent engineers here did not say that the problem was the length of the line. They were of the opinion that since the sync speed was steady and consistant that the problem lay with Plusnet.

And for a very long time now, it has been a case of buck passing - both ways.

Since I have repeatedly asked Plusnet to explain to me the loss between the sync speed and the download speed and not got an answer - maybe you can explain- in non geekspeak, so that at least if I have to accept this situation, I understand why.

Thank you for the kind offer of changing my account - but really Gandolf, sounds like going back to the days of dialup. Apart from having a dodgy mobile signal accross the networks just not interested in anything that isn't unlimited - would you be ? And again, thanks for taking the time to look at this for me

Miriam

[#9]

Thanks Townman for your comments.

Since the same copper wires are going to connect me to whichever ISP and they are delivering a pretty contant 2.3ish then Im not going to muddy the waters by jumping ship.

I presume that Plusnet have done 24/7 monitoring although I was told by their last call centre person that this wasn't possible ( really ?)

I don't know how to monitor the sync speed. I use the Hub manager for information but it only refreshes info when there has been a disconnection or restart.

Disconnections - nope pretty good at the moment.

Dont know what SNRN is but the SNR has repeatedly been attempted to hard pin at 9ish - but tonight has dropped to 6.2 which is too low.

The REIN Man has visited - spent a whole day here - nope.

Dont know what  SVLAN congestion is - is that connected to contention ?

No, I don't think that BTOP have done that - I think Plusnet are using that as an excuse. I can watch online channels, You Tube etc then it just comes to halt and can't even get a page to load. That can last for 30 minuts or days.

Fibre cabinet has just been installed in village approx 1.5-2miles away but dont think it's up & running yet and I'm an exchange only line anyway.

The question I need answered, so that I can understand - is since I have a sync speed that allows me to do everything I want online - why is there a download speed loss of as much as 2Mbps at times. ?

Thanks again Townman

Miriam

[#10]

Hi Miriam,

I very much doubt that PlusNET would give up, the tone of this does sound like BTOR / BTw saying no more call outs. We’ve seen this before.

SNRM is Signal to Noise Ratio MARGIN which some routers simply report as SNR. Normally it should be 6dB downstream and it is what it is upstream. Your observation that sometimes it’s 9dB and sometimes 6dB is very interesting. Do these figures change (by this much) WITHOUT restarting the router? Are these so different day time / night time?

Which PlusNET router have you got hub zero (2704n) or a hub one? 24x7 stats monitoring would be useful in confirming that there is no REIN. Just because BTOR did not find any does not mean there is none. Simply when they looked the found nothing.

It is not a matter of the sync speed not being updated between router restarts, but rather SYNC speed does not change within an ADSL connection session. However line noise will impact DATA throughput due to increased error rates.

When you perceive things slow down, how are you measuring the slower speed? When this happens can you please log into the router check the log and see if the router reports a loss of xDSL or PPP session.

There are things very much not clear here:

Length of line might point to slow synch speed and unstable connectivity ... which seems not to be the case if I’ve read stuff here correctly.

REIN can cause periodic slow DATA rates, though if REIN is that bad I would expect the ADSL connect to be unstable. However given you’ve reported a 9dB SNRM that higher target could keep the sync up through prolonged moderate REIN.

SVLAN is the back haul “pipe” which carries your and many other user’s traffic from the exchange to the internet. These are provided by BTw for the ISPs. If there is a lack of capacity on these, at peak times there will be congestion and DATA throughout speeds will fall.

Similarly at your end if there are lots of people connected by WiFi the WiFi channels can be similarly congested.

Has a different router been tried?

@HarryB

Are you able to illuminate why BT have stopped trying here? Is this in fact an ADSL stability issue, for the information provided suggests not. Is there any possibility of getting to this user a router which will work with one of the xDSL monitoring tools please?

[#11]

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@med777 wrote:

Thanks Baldrick 1,

Have tested most of the mobile networks ( becuase I have had to when I have had no Plusnet usable internet) but don't have a reliable signal here plus I'm not aware of any 'unlimited' mobile broadband packages. Anything less would be a retro step so not pursuing that line unless the packages change.

Miriam

---

OK. If you decde to reconsider this approach you need to be looking at MIFI (not wifi) deals. Some come complete with a mobile router and data packages of at least 100GB per month. One of these mifi routers fitted with an external antennae should give much better reception performance than you will get on a mobile phone.

[#12]

I already have a MIFI unit though not an antenna. I live on top of a hill, nearly 800 feet above sea level and the highest point around without any obstruction for many, many miles so didn't think that I needed one.

I have searched online but can't find any packages that come close to 100GB a month - must be me not using the right search criteria.

Miriam